Chris (access until November 15, 2014)

[Chris]

i think i will stick with the oil until i get some fresh truffles. this one may be a little far gone. (sorry. not the best photos.)

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by Chris. Reason: picture links given by google drive not working

[Alana McGee]

Any photos are good photos. Thanks for attaching them!

That truffle has definitely seen better days…. Now you know. That is generally not what we like to train with. That is what a Oregon winter white looks like that has been previously frozen and then defrosted for a while. The freezing process messes with them, by breaking down those cell walls it allows them to decay faster unless kept in that state. It may smell truffly- but what you want is the really heady diesel gasoline smell on Oregon whites, not “mushroomy”. Mushroomy/honey is fine, but it is what we consider a secondary or tertiary characteristic with Tuber oregonense.

If Kristin weren’t moving currently she’d jump in here and say “THROW IT AWAY” no question.

My guess is it is very soft and if you squeeze it brownish water/liquid comes out, yes?

The cotton/qtips you put with it I think still may be valuable for training, but not being able to smell it myself, bit of a toss up. Do not use the actual truffle itself in scenarios. It should stay in the freezer. Hope that was helpful though.

If you do want to get frozen ones to work with (that are good decent quality and ok!) I can come up with a couple of sources. We are out, but I think a couple of the Oregon mushroom folks may have some. Or it is only a couple of months until the season starts, and honestly, if you work with the oil/ solution until she & you are outside reliably Alerting near the forest edge, or even in your yard with buried hides, that’s fine. Many people don’t use real truffles until very late in training. We recommend it, when possible, because of VOC differences and also some dog’s alert behaviors change when dealing with real truffles vs odor in a container.

But a ways off still. You’ll be fine.

A very long winded answer, for “good decision”.

[Chris]

yes they are squishy when thawed. just got them today, so no harm done. i am just never sure about the oil because it smells so faint to me.

these are all day two of box hides. i wish i had a bigger room and more help.

is it bad to click twice for two touches without a treat in between? sometimes the first click doesn’t get her attention, but the second one does. two treats for two clicks?

[Chris]

pictures that were there (in post #2784) have disappeared, again, with my ability to edit the post.
embedded videos are not playing for me. hopefully they are for you.
random weird glitch that is probably nothing: only page 1 of the discussion lists 101 as my active class. pages 2 and 3 say “no active classes” under “my classes.”

[Alana McGee]

The embed videos do show up but haven’t had a chance to view them yet. We will look into the other problem(s). Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

[Chris]

she has been a little better about batting the boxes around. she understands that she is looking for the target, but seems to be mostly using her eyes rather than her nose.

today i tried burying the target for the first time. we have an indoor space with gravel floor. she found the target and dug it up. it was awesome. the target had a small piece of the frozen truffle in addition to oiled q-tips because i do not trust the faintness of the oil. if you could please find me a fresh frozen specimen, i would greatly appreciate it!

[Alana McGee]

Hi Chris

While dogs do experiment with different ways of meeting criteria, I think this is simply Daisy finding LOTS of enjoyment in the game. Here enthusiasm and confidence just made a major leap forward! Pouncing on boxes is not a big deal for her. It’s pretty common in the training process for excited dogs to get to this point. It’s ok BECAUSE truffles don’t grow in boxes! The important part here is her enthusiasm and how much fun she is having. So, now it is time to change the game. Progress to the next stage by changing the containers and configuration. Let’s see how that goes. We also think that “priming” her will tame down the pouncing (but if not, no big deal).

Using visual identification is perfectly acceptable at this stage, and until her alert behaviors are somewhat more solidified we would encourage you to continue using them. Batting around the boxes is ok. Some dogs do this more than others. She is not rewarded for that behavior. The visual Id acts as a learning tool and guide for the dogs and is useful when transferring environments as it allows you to transition successfully into new environments and practice alert behavior skills while providing a guide to follow in heavy distraction (or large areas), which the outdoors and especially the forest is considered.

If we could see what you mean by hitting the other boxes we may be able to offer other advice. For example, if she is just knocking/ slapping them once in play that is one thing. If she is offering an alert indication at the other boxes, indulge it. Go to the box and open it so Daisy can see that there is in fact something missing in this picture? the truffle smell. Then happily carry on to the next box. This will help Daisy begin to recognize ?what is different about these identical objects??”

The next step in an alert behavior chain sequence for YOU is once Daisy alerts, reward her, but then get down on the ground with her, open up that container (or lift up the box with the truffle odor) and see if you can get her to nose target inside the container (or on the ground as the case may be). Getting truffles out of the ground can take a few minutes of work, and we want to start building in not only duration in Daisy?s alerts but also precision.

I will try to upload a video (or link it) which may or may not work here as I am posting from 30,000 ft in the air for you to see an example of another team doing this.

As for frozen truffles:

We can send you frozen samples (Currently in stock we only have Frozen Oregon black truffles), but since I am traveling I would not be able to do so until Oct. 1st when I return. You would order that directly off the website. If you would like to order whites from other sources, or would like them sooner, I can provide you links to possible retailers. Let me know if you would like this information.

Shipping costs for Frozen and fresh truffles tend to be high as they must be sent overnight in insulated and chilled containers.

Again, you may not detect much odor from the solution, but it is fine as a training source. Keep in mind as well that truffles in the wild will have a variety of different concentrations of volatiles, not everything is going to be as stinky as the frozen pieces, and we want Daisy to alert on the array, so it would be good to practice with some cotton you have kept in with that frozen truffle as well. I wouldn?t be overly concerned about this at the moment as you are still in beginning stages, but eventually you will want to practice working her on various levels of concentration of odor.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by Alana McGee. Reason: typos

[Alana McGee]

Here is a video (We have permission to share) that demonstrates the opening of the target box to ‘practice digging’ for the truffles. You do not need to have fake ‘tools’ with you. We actually suggested the handler ceased doing this (with the tools) for the time being as it was distracting to the dog, Monza. Do notice how Monza’s handler gets down low to inspect the box and rewards again when Monza offers an alert inside the container. That is ideally the kind of scenario we are looking for.

Also notice how long the reward sequence is. You & Daisy will be building to that as well. An elongated reward sequence can be key to keeping a dog at source later when you are attempting to extract the truffle from the ground.

You and Daisy do not need to look exactly like this, or be as vocal, but it may give you some perspective.

This scenario is slightly more advanced than where you and Daisy are at, but this is what we are building to.

The second video, is the same team later in the week without the box of tools- again, more examples for you to look at.

[Alana McGee]

Chris

Your videos (Now that I have watched them I see examples of what you are talking about with the slapping of boxes. She isn?t alerting on them per say, but if she stays at one, indulge her, show her there is nothing there, put it back, and move one):

In your 3rd video is a good example of having her re-alert. She tapped the flower pot, you clicked, she moved on. That?s ok. You helped her re focus back on the correct pot. Your body language in that scenario steered her back to the second flower pot. That is ok too- we are still looking to make solid connection on odor when choices are involved na dyou handled that situation including the rewarding very nicely.

You are essentially doing what I just described in my last post.

The 4th Video is GREAT! she is getting the hang of having choices. Very nice. I like how she is alerting and looking for reward, then when you cue her back to re-alert.

When she is on leash in the other scenarios, it is ok to stay at the source and reward for a bit longer, you don?t need to leave right away. We like that she is interested in staying at source. You do a pretty good job of luring her away. after you reward in the scenarios, try to lure away with food if she is trying to remain engaged at the odor source. We want to avoid physically pulling her off odor. Good though. and Good reengaging and bringing her back through the line of possible targets to solidify behaviors.

If she continues to play/ slap the containers, try also changing the containers you are using, but also, do indulge her. She will realize that that behavior does not get her rewards she is seeking.

You guys are doing well.

As that starts to feel comfortable, if you can, start to enlarge the area, change the configuration and add more distractions like you see in the videos I posted above. Start by just adding one or two things at a time to the environment and see how she does with that. Considering she is still such a young pup, she is doing a fantastic job on focusing with distractions.

[Chris]

awesome! though (re: first two sentences of #2797) i never said she was getting worse at anything and i don’t know who “cricket” is!

today we added more boxes (punctured egg cartons) and random pieces of clothing. daisy is doing awesome. i use the time it takes to re-hide the target to practice the “stay” command. you know when she is going to “stay” because her whole body freezes on command. is it o.k. that she sees me hiding/arranging the boxes, or should i put her out of the room?

how may i shape an alert? wait for one before clicking? for instance, i am still inclined to click as soon as she sniffs the correct box, but if i wait another second or two she will usually paw it. we have been staying at the target to open the box and to relish in the finding of the truffle. it’s going good. she enjoys it. i will try and get more video by the weekend.

[Alana McGee]

Sorry! Cricket is another dog (on my brain, apologies- I was just watching her videos with a very similar thing going on)

For now it is okay if she sees you hiding targets but eventually we want to remove that aid for Daisy. So eventually you will want to put her out of eyesight.

As for shaping your pawing alert- I would say keep doing what you are doing, but about every 2 out of 5 times, wait a second or two and see if you can get that paw alert. If she does offer that, jackpot her for it so it becomes solidified that this is preferable to just smelling. A nose target is great as well, as eventually you’d like her to be able to do both.

If you haven’t gotten to that point in the lessons yet, read through the material- we go over how to shape and refine an alert.

[Chris]

you’ll probably tell me i should use a leash. trying out an older camera.

[Chris]

so missing you 🙁 please get me to lesson 3

[Alana McGee]

Hey Chris!

Sorry. I am out of the country and been having connectivity issues with the site until just a moment ago (And Kristin is still moving houses). Will get feed back to you momentarily!

[Alana McGee]

You’re quiz 2 has been graded! hover over the boxes on the quiz and you should be able to see our comments.

[Author]

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